Toya Thomas Interview Transcript
APA Citation for this video interview:
Furman, L., & Thomas, T. (2024). Black Diaspora Quilt History Project Interview with Toya Thomas [Video]. Quilt Index. https://quiltindex.org//view/?type=stories&kid=62-186-83.

Relevant People, Names, & Links:
Kaye Whittington
      •https://quiltindex.org/view/?type=artists&kid=62-185-16
Theadra Fleming
      •https://quiltindex.org/view/view/view/?type=artists&kid=12-51-84
Marla Jackson
      •https://marlaarnajackson.com/
Veronica Conaky Mays
      •https://www.amazon.com/Heart-Wide-Open-Veronica-Conaky/dp/1963748905
Renee Fleurangs-Valdes
      •https://www.quiltedartistrybyrenee.com/
Rachel Clark
      •https://www.rdkc.com/
Cookie Washington
      •https://www.cookiesewsquilts.com/
All that She Carried, by Tiya Miles
      •https://tiyamiles.com/books/all-that-she-carried/
Ellen Blalock
      •https://ellen-blalock.squarespace.com/

Note about Interview Transcription from Bailey Griffin & Dr. Liv Furman:
A crucial aspect of transcribing interviews for the Black Diaspora Quilt History Project (BDQHP) is accurately capturing the linguistic nuances of the conversations. Interviewees often use Black Language (Baker-Bell, 2020) in their storytelling, and preserving this cultural context is essential to our methodology. By transcribing these vernaculars verbatim, we ensure that the voices of the Black Diaspora are clearly represented. When conversations overlap, we mark this in the transcript using brackets [Speaker Name: overlapping speaking], often reflecting affirmative responses like "mhm." This approach maintains the conversation's authenticity and accuracy, highlighting the cultural and historical context of the speakers. These nuances convey unique expressions, idioms, and speech patterns integral to understanding their lived experiences. By capturing these elements, we honor the voices and stories of the Black Diaspora.

The interview transcriptions were created with the assistance of machine-generated transcription tools. Some punctuation and capitalization may be inconsistent.

Reflection Questions:
In what ways does Toya’s quiltmaking practice carry forward memory keeping and storytelling traditions? Reflect on the connections and/or differences between quilting and coatmaking. What aspects of the two artmaking traditions does Toya highlight in this interview? In what ways do the mediums allow for the artist to embody memory keeping and storytelling traditions particular to Black communities?
Reflect on Toya’s discussion of quilt groups and artist collectives. In what ways were they impactful to her artmaking praxis? Is this similar or different from other quilt artists you are familiar with?

Interview Transcription:
Liv
Okay. Here we are and now we're recording. Hello Again, we are here for another Black Diaspora Quilt History Project Artist interview. Today, we are joined by Toya Thomas. I'm very excited to talk to you today. I'm going to read just a little bit of information about the Black Diaspora Quilt History Project for anybody who's viewing.

The Black Diaspora Quilt History Project is a national endowment for the Humanities funded Initiative. The BDQHP is an intentional effort towards preserving and making accessible in the Quilt index, primary and secondary resources on African American African and African Diasporic quilt history. The BDQHP is a two year project running 2022-2024. The scope of the project entails quilt index staff working with a diverse group of stakeholders to create digital humanities resources on African American, African and African diaspora quilt history. The resources emerging from this project will make known and honor the cultural legacy of Black quilters throughout the Diaspora. If you want to hear more about the quilt index and the Black Diaspora Quilt History Project, feel free to check out our website at quiltindx.org and check out the collections page. Go to the collections tab and check out the BDQHP collections page. And with that, we'll go ahead and hop into our conversation. So, hey, Toya, for folks [Toya: Hi, Liv] For folks who are going to be watching, could you give us just like a general introduction? Like, who are you? What do you want us to know?

Toya
I am a fiber artist who enjoys the challenge of creating a unified tapestry from unrelated fabrics and developing them into a themed memory quilt or art piece of either historical significance or social consciousness. Um, many of my pieces utilized, uh, African and African inspired fabric. And often portray cultural experiences and influences. Um, I am Sam and Blanche's only daughter, only child. I'm a retired tax accountant, a graduate of Howard University. I'm very analytical and reflective, sensitive, conscientious. Um, I think I have a pretty good sense of humor. And I'm Sankofa minded. So I'm cognizant of my, um, where my people originated from, as well as, even my immediate ancestors and what they taught me and what they built in me and trying to carry on that.

Liv
I love that. Thank you for that beautiful introduction. And with that, I guess we can continue the introduction. Can you tell us more about, like, how you got started off with quilting. Was this taught to you by somebody? Like how did you?

Toya
Yeah. You know, my story, you know, a lot of times quilters will say, you know, their grandmother quilt and, you know, they sat at the feet of their grandmother doing, you know, tying the quilts and things like that? I didn't really have that benefit growing up. I knew that both grandmothers, my mother's side, as well as my father's side, of the family. Both grandmothers were quilters, just by word of mouth. But I never saw any quilts on my mother's side of the family. I do recall seeing quilts that my grandmother had made, but I was so young, I didn't realize the significance of them, and even when my dad passed, while he may have had a quilt of hers in his possession, I think somebody at goodwill may have gotten. So yeah, we I don't really have any heritage quilts from my family. And So, you know, that that I I feel somewhat at a disadvantage, you know, with that. However, I appreciate them. I knew how to sew. I learned how to sew when I was in middle school. And I've sew off and on since then. But in about 2009, I was appointed to be chair of the Kwanzaa committee in Jack and Jill in my local chapter. Mm hm. And we as a committee met and Considered or pondered what we would do as a project. And what we came up with was we were going to make a community quilt. And such a quilt would represent each of the families in our deck and ill chapter. We had no idea what we were going to do for Layout or anything like that. And as a result, we said, Okay, we're going to go forward with this quilt idea. Who knows how to make a quilt? And of course, no one did. There were a few that knew how to sew. And I said, Okay, you're on the committee here on the committee you're on the committee. And then I went to local fabric store and took a quilting class. And it just so happens when I took that quilting class, the person, Kaye Whittington was the teacher. Yeah. And Kaye Whittington is a member of the Great Lakes African American Quilt Network. And when I took that class, I've got to say, she really inspired me. And, you know, she she came out to my house, met with us. This was after I took the basic class. She came out to my house, met with us and said, Okay, I'm going to work with you, help you get this quilt made. And she taught us how to applique. You know, just basic construction, you know, we came up with a design, and she said, Okay, well, this is what you'll need to do in order to accomplish it. And you know, it just it was such a warm she didn't want anything for it. You know, we were like, you know, how much can we pay you? She was like, No, no, no, no, no. I want you to enjoy this. I want you to get more out of it. And, you know, this is not a pay for service kind of thing. Yeah. And, you know, it was she invited me to the yield meeting. I went to the guild meeting. And when it got to the Show and Tell portion of the meeting, I was floored. Oh, my God. You can do all of this with a quilt, you know, because I honestly walked into that meeting at that point in time with the same type of image that most people have, which is grandma quilt kind of thing, which is patches. And it's just not like that anymore. It has evolved. And the artistic form.

Liv
Yeah. And the folks in the group are so skilled. I felt exactly the same way my first time coming to the Great Lakes gathering and seeing everybody hold up these quilts. Like, you included. I remember seeing your quilt and Francis's quilt. And I was just like, Oh, my gosh. Color choices, as well as designs. I've never seen patterns like that. [Collective: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.] So I guess that is that what got you started or wanting to make more.

Toya
That got me started because after I think I joined at the very first meeting. I was like, Oh, this is it for me. And I joined, and I think they were preparing for a quilt show at the time and a retreat. And, you know, I went on the retreat and that was where I took, I think, my first formal class with the Guild under the direction of Theadra Fleming. God rest her soul. You know, so she and K were, like, my very first teacher in quilting. And, you know, it was a real joy and pleasure working under Theadra and learning some of the basic techniques. Then going to the retreat, you know, the camaraderie that develops with other quilters, you know, people with a common interest. And everyone is so supportive and encouraging. It's a nurturing type of environment. Once you start quilting, you know, you can't throw back. It just You're in. It's an addiction. [Liv: I love it. Right. Yeah. Get hooked. I feel like you start seeing all the things you can create, at least for me.] I know. I just every time I see some, I'm like, Oh, that would be great for, you know, or somebody's dress. You know, you see somebody's dress and you're like, Oh, Il out of that. Right. You know, or just a landscape. It's like, Oh, my God I imagine a landscape. I could you know, you look out and you see mountains and trees, and then you start putting green shaded African fabric in place of the trees, and then blue African fabric in place of the water. And then you just start building your tapestry in your mind. And it's like I take pictures a lot of pictures sometimes and say that's inspiration. I got a little folder on my phone that's quilt inspiration.

Liv
Yeah, I love that. I love that. I even recently started I looked at an album cover, and I was like, that would be like a CD album cover, and I was like, that would be a beautiful quilt. It was kind of, like, pixelated. And I was like, that would be for perfect quilt. But I have two follow up questions. So I would love to hear more about your process, but I also don't want to get lost that you talked a lot about, like relationships in quiltmaking. [Toya: Mmhm] So maybe we can start with that, and then we'll come back to the methodologies question afterwards. So could you talk more just about the relation part of quiltmaking specifically as it is to you maybe and any groups that you're in? Like, what role does that play within your quiltmaking? And if you'd like to name, you know groups that you would like to highlight.

Toya
Sure. Well, one of the groups that I'm involved with is the Great Lakes African American Quilter Network. And that is my primary guild that I belong to. I'm also a member of two virtual guilds. One being the National African American Quilters Guild. And that is basically, they reached out to people through Facebook and built this network. And through that organization, I had the opportunity to exhibit a quilt in France. So that was my first international exposure. Yeah. The other virtual group that I belong to is we call ourselves EPIC, and it's an acronym Empowering let me see. I've got it right here. Excuse me for stepping off camera second. Empowering and enabling one another to perfect our style and inspire others to create fiber art masterpieces. I'll put it in the chat when I get a chance. But this is basically a cooperative of Quilt Exhibit curators, quilting instructors and an artist. And we basically share ideas with one another. We talk about the various quilting techniques or clothing quilted clothing or wearable art, if you will, techniques. And we share those ideas. That group is probably my I don't know what how I would label it, but I guess it is my reach group, if you will. It pushes me to really step out there and try new things, refine my skill. I get constructive feedback from these members that say, you know, that's nice. But that yellow is a little strong. Maybe you want to tone that yellow down or what are you trying to say here in this quill. You're trying to say too much, you're getting your message is getting lost in overwhelming your viewer. I get that kind of feedback from them. And and I think that helps me develop a more meaningful piece. Yeah. So I really enjoy epic sisters and working with them. And in fact, Three of us were at the National African American Quilt Convention in Lawrence Kansas this past week. And the three of us were teaching um, techniques to some of the attendees. [Liv: That is really cool. Yeah. And you'll all met during the National African American Quilters Guild Meetings and then progressed. Okay.] Actually, two different organizations. The National African American Quilt Guild was not part of the National African American Quilt Convention. Oh. Two different gatherings. The Convention was organized by Marla Jackson. And she's in Lawrence Kansas. And she started that gathering back in 2017. There had been four of those. There was 2017, 18 19, and then skipped the pandemic, and this was the first one since the pandemic 2024. Yeah, that's by Marla Jackson. Then during the pandemic, the virtual group, National African American Quilt Guild arose, had nothing to do with Marla Jackson. Got you. The names are just similar. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. History lesson today.

Liv
Well, these are good to know. Was there any things that you wanted to know about, you know, your relationship with other quilt makers or just relationships in developing your own practice?

Toya
Um, Okay. So with other quilt makers, funny story…So, when I went to the NAAQC in 2018, I met Veronica Mays, who now is my my dearest best friend. We are sewing together weekly. We Zoom at least once a week, and we're just sewing together. Um, and we travel together, too. So we've gone to retreats together. We've gone, we've gone out to California and modeled coats that we made together on Zoom. In fact, she gave me some of the fabric for this coat that I'm wearing, so I call it my Conaky jacket, which is her nickname. And she gave me that fabric, and I said, You know what? I'm going to make something out of that fabric. And I took this really challenging coat class. We both took the class online together from this woman in Alaska. And I at first, I wasn't really sure I was going to like the jacket. But after I started grid on the lab, right? This is all piecework. It's not a print. So I've made I've made this whole entire thing. This is the fabric that my best friend gave me. This elephant. Yeah. But I mean, even this fabric here, this came from one of my first pieces of wearable art. So I like to incorporate fabric from other pieces that I've made. Yeah. All of this is piece work. [Liv: That is so intricate.] Yeah. It's all individual strips of fabric. [Liv: It's beautiful. And I love the elephant accents on both sides. That's really cute.] Thank you. Thank you. And then the back as a big a big Yeah. Yeah. [Liv: That is gorgeous.] Thank you. Thank you.

Liv
How did you get into that? [Toya: Wearable art? Yeah.

Toya
Well, Let's see. So let me go back to the story where I met my best friend. And and then I'll tell you how that came about. So at 2018, I was flying out to the NAAQC in Kansas and got off the plane. I'm waiting at baggage pickup and just, you know, the luggage is coming around on the carousel. And I see this Black woman and said, I wonder if she's going to the NAAQC like I am, you know? And then I said, Toya. Not every Black woman that just got off the plane in Kansas City is going where you're going. Yeah. Oh, you know, I said, No, don't approach her, you know, She might look at you like you're crazy, right? So I didn't say anything. So I rented a car. She rented a car. We both drove from the airport to Missouri Star Quilt Company which I was telling you about. Then when I saw her there, I said, okay, now I feel like I can approach you. I didn't feel like I could do that at the airport. And she said, You know what? I was going to say the same thing to you. I was thinking at the airport. The same thing that, you know, I just told you I was thinking. And we said, so you are going to the NAAQC. I'm going to the NAAQC. And then, you know, we said, Well, gosh, we should have came to each other at the airport. We could have only rented one car. And, you know, we ended up carpooling everywhere we went at that convention. And then the next one, we were roommates. And, you know, that was really off the road. We now at that one, we both took the same class, which was with Renee Fleurangs-Valdes, who was also a member of Epic. At that time, we were all unaffiliated. But we took the class. It was warrior woman. So we were building an African warrior woman by applique. She was showing us her applique technique. And just in chatting as we're doing our creating, she mentions a group of women that gathered together at a retreat. Was it annual or semi annual or bi annually? But it was a retreat that was in Connecticut called storytellers. And they no longer meet, but basically, it's African American quilters, getting together for retreat, and, you know, they would have classes and things like that. So she invited us to submit to go to that. And we Veronica that year. Storytellers happened at the same time as the Houston Quilt Festival. And so Veronica had already made arrangements to go to the Houston Quilt Festival. So Veronica went to Houston and I went to Connecticut. Yeah. Got to Connecticut, and I took Rachel Clark's class. Rachel Clark is internationally known wearable art creator. And that's where I met Rachel. And we hit it off just like that. I showed up with all of my half square triangles, already cut out, you know, ready to create my first coat. And she thought, you know, my idea was, you know, crazy, not crazy crazy, but crazy for a first coat. Okay. Yeah. She thought it was ambitious. Yeah. And I was like, No, this is what I want to do. And I wish I had Oh, you know what? Let me see. I wonder if I can [Liv: Oh, share?] Yeah. I can share screen. Okay. Let me see. Okay. Is it available for me to share screen? [Liv:It should be. Let me check it out. Yep] Okay. Yeah. Okay. Let me see here. There. Okay. So this is is are you able to see it? [Liv: Yeah. That's your first one.] That was my first coat. And this was the one that I made when I met Rachel Clark. [Liv: That's amazing and those pieces too, like, all the patterns and stuff in there in the back.] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Let's see if I can enlarge this. I don't know if I can. [Liv: That looks beautiful.] Yeah. These are all [Liv: I like the patterning]—all individual pieces. All all individually pieced.

Liv
What was the significance of like your choices with the color and the patterning?

Toya
Yeah. Now, the gold was inspiration provided to me by Rachel, because I was going all black and white. And she was like, you gotta to put some more color in there. You got to pop some more color. So it was her inspiration that led me to put the gold in there. She said, because the black and white has You know, create some business. You know, with all those different prints, you got to give your eyes a chance to rest or to process it. So putting it in the block gives your eyes a chance to move on and appreciate the next part. [Liv: Yeah.] Yeah. Yeah. So that was my first coat. Then I did this back down to a more reasonable size. [Liv:I love that. I love that too.] And then I went on to this one. But I don't know whether I've answered your question completely or whether I went off on a tangent. [Liv: Oh no that's great. This is beautiful. And those are all like hexagon pieces.] Yes, those are hexagons. So it is called the one block wonder where you take a piece of fabric like this. And this is one repeat of the fabric. Then you layer six pieces of the same fabric its just the same image printed over and over and over again. And so you take six of those and you cut them exactly one on top of the other. Like you can barely probably barely see that there's multiple layers here. [Liv: Oh okay. Yeah. It's stacked up. I can see that.] Yeah. So then you cut them together all at the same time. And then by doing that, you get six identical pieces, and you create the kaleidoscope look. And then it's just a matter of laying it out and something creative, you know, Yeah, that's the fun part, the layout. You know, you start with your individual pieces of fabric that, you know, this fabric is nice, this fabric is nice. But then how do they play together, and how do you make them play together to create an interesting piece? And this is a separate piece of fabric. This is just a plain black and white that didn't come from the original, but I thought it would, you know, help break it up a little bit and give you the chance to explore the different hexes that were created from, you know, the kaleidoscope approach.

Liv
It also makes it more apparent, especially from a longer view, that it is the hexagon pattern because you can't see it as well from me seeing it in a digital media. So it looks like it gives a lot of that dimension so you can see the movement. [Toya: Yeah. Yeah.] I love that. You have a lot of quilt, and I think the coats are a whole different area. So maybe if you’d like to talk to you about that? Like, how do you see your quilt? I don't know if they're quilt coats or what do you term it or just like wearable?

Toya
Wearable art, usually or quilted coats. In fact, that's what I was teaching in Kansas, how to make a quilted sweatshirt jacket. You basically start with a sweatshirt and from there, you build a jacket from it. And so that's what I was teaching. Teaching there.

Liv
I have to take one of these classes someday. Yeah. But maybe could you just speak a little bit on, I guess, each of these mediums, how they function for you. Um, like, do you do them for specific meanings or, you know, events?

Toya
So sometimes yeah. Sometimes I do them for an exhibit, a specific call, so addressing a specific call. So there was an exhibit that was curated by Cookie Washington in South, in Sumter, South Carolina. And the name of that exhibit was All That We Carry. And it was based on a book by I can't remember her name. I'm sorry. But she wrote a book called All That She Carried. And the book was based on a slave who when she was being sold from her mother's plantation to another plantation, her mother gave her a sack. And in this sack, there were a few items. Some almonds, I think, or pecans, pecans, some seeds, And I can't remember all of the things that were in there, but they all had some significance to the mother as she was giving it. And this was basically all that she had from her mother, old tattered dress was in there. And that's what she gave her daughter. And her daughter carried that sac with her. You know, for the rest of her life. And she and her mom never reunited, but she always had that sack. And so the book is, you know, kind of based on the premise that we are all that we carry. Everything that we are is based on what was given to us by our parents. And so I did a piece, which happens to be one of your questions, favorite piece. I did a piece actually two. One piece was a self portrait. And in that self portrait, let me see if I can find that in that slide presentation. No. There it is. Okay. So this is a representation of all that I carry. This is a picture of me on a beach enjoying the beach. But I took that concept, and that's where I put my parents and my grandparents. And And the family pictures. And then I also have, you know, my mother and father here. I love that. I try to enlarge that. Yeah. [Liv: Cause you brought that to the quilt document.] Yeah. [Liv: I got to see it in person. I was like, This is so beautiful. And now seeing it with the picture of you next to it and kind of peering behind, I don't know it.] Yeah. It is. Yeah. So this is my interpretation of that quilt call with All That We Carry, you know, with the Adinkra symbols representing personal characteristics and family characteristics, as well as, you know, my family. And I am that this is what's in my DNA. Um, and so then that leads into this wearable art piece that was made at the same time. Um, which is basically constructed by a DNA helix on the back of it using those same Adinkra symbols. [Liv: yea] And also, I have pictures of my grandfathers, my grandmothers, on both sides of the family, and my dad and my mom. Also, some of the fabrics that I used in this coat were fabrics that were in other quilts that I've made, including that very first Jack and Jill quilt. I also have in here a piece of fabric from the fabric that was used to make the cumber buns for the groomsmen in my wedding. And the fabric was used to make the head dresses for the bridesmaids in my wedding. So yeah, a lot of things like that are in this coat. And so this particular coat is called “In My DNA.” And um, so these are my two, my two favorite pieces. They represent, they represent me and where I've come from in my quilting journey, and uh, you know, gives me my inspiration to proceed. None of this would have been possible if I hadn't met and connected with Rachel Clark and also being inspired by my best friend, Veronica Mays. So. Yeah. And then you know, some of the other pieces that I've worked on, getting inspiration from other quilters, you know, I showed them my progress pieces. What do you think of this did I add a little bit of that or less of this or less of that? What are your thoughts on? I love getting other people's opinion. And so in that In that vein, a little piece of all of my friends are in my quilt because I have their opinion is incorporated. I like to think of it that way. So it's a piece of me, but it's also a piece of my friends that are in my quilt.

Liv
I guess can see you tell us a little bit more about your methodologies, your quilt making, and coat making, any kind of art that you make, from start to finish. How does it look like in the beginning? And as you go through with your making process, what are the unique things that you do, even if it's not, while your hands are on the fabric?

Toya
Okay. Yeah. Sure. I start with well, sometimes I'm inspired or a subject matter by the specifics of a quilt call. I did a mermaid quilt. Never would I have just decided one day, I think I'll do a mermaid quilt. Yeah. Just not, you know, not my not something that I knew a lot about. And so there was a call for Black Mermaid Quilt, and Cookie Washington in South Carolina curated this particular show. And so I, you know, I did a little research on it and find out, you know, where the myth or the story or the belief in Mermaids came from. And and then from there, I just, you know, thought of different. I guess one of the first things I do is I kind of do a brain dump and just like, just throwing out different ideas. What does that bring to mind Black mermaid? You know, I thought. At one point, I thought, You know what? I think I'm going to do something kind of comical that has a geriatric mermaid, you know, with the saggy boobs. You know. And then I said, No, maybe I'll do Eartha Kitt from Boomerang and make her a mermaid. And then I said, well, no, you know, if I use the image of Eartha Kit, I got to find out about copyright and, you know, get permission to use her image and all of that. So I said, I'm not going to go down that way. Um then I thought of using a curvy, a full figured mermaid. And I said, that's not my experience. And actually, I think Renee Fleurangs-Valdes, who does a lot of Curvy lady type of images in her quilt. I said, she'll probably go that way. So I left that alone. And so I ended up with let me see. Did I put that one in Let me just see if it's in in here. [Liv: Yes. I would love to see it. I love mermaids. So I'm going to look at Washington's exhibition after we…] Yeah. Let me find that one for you. Okay. So I ended up with this one. And basically, I used my own image that way, I knew I wouldn't have any copyright issues. Put my face in there. And then I use the Bargello technique to create the movement of water. I also put a little historical and social significance of the Tecora slave ship. There's an quick flash in the Amistad movie where the slaves are en route middle passage on their way from Africa to Cuba. And from Africa to Cuba, they were in the Ticora slave ship. They did not pick up the Amistad ship until they got to Cuba and then came to America from Cuba. So the first ship that they were on, that was the most horrendous one, and that was the one that I think you was more passionate about as you watch the Amistad movie. But there's a quick flash in that movie where you see a mother who had given birth to a child while on the boat on the passage. And in the one scene, you see her sitting on the edge of the ship. And taking her baby and falling into the ocean. It's really quick. It's no more than a flash of lightning that you see that happening. And that's where I got the inspiration for this, and this is the woman and her baby falling into the ocean. Yeah. And the mermaid represents a spirit receiving her spirit, taking her to a place that is better than bondage. And that's the name of my piece. That's incredible. Death being better than bondage. So I kind of started out. You heard some of the ideas that I had in the very beginning. And then it just evolved. You know, I go from one idea to the next and you know, then an inspiration hits me and says, No, I think I'm going to go this way. And I often start with a brief a design brief that says, you know, I'm going to use this concept or this idea. I'm going to use these colors, and this is the type of emotion that I want to elicit when viewers see this. And so starting out with a design brief and a rough sketch. I sometimes will sketch using graph paper, and other times I will sketch using clip art. And then from the clip art, then I will say, Okay, so I want to put a woman here, I want to put a tree here. I want to put a house here, I want to put a dog here. So I'll use clip art to kind of put those in place, and then using clip art, I can move them around and say, Okay, you know what? I think I want these closer. I think I want this holding that, I think I want this like that. And then from there, after I get my placement, then I work on my scale, and, you know, I will sketch it out on graph paper from there and then begin to either applique or my pieces of fabric to get my final image. So that's my design aspect. Then I start to piece, and I would, you know, pi basically the bottom layer. Like, in this instance, I have two bargellos. I have the bargello of the water, but I also have bargello of the fin of the mermaid. So this has some real tiny bargello piecing in it to and these are lots of different fabrics. This is I mean, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve different, you know, ten different different fabrics here that I've just, you know, pieced together and then did a bargello with. This one has I can count these. This one has one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, twelve, twelve different fabrics that I selected to create the motion of the movement of the water. You know, varying ranges of blue to green and light to dark to create the motion and and the waves to kind of show you know, and then the placement of the woman and her baby falling to show that pulling down the water there. So I varied the width of the strips in the bargello to give it that motion to pull her down. Yeah. Yeah, oops. Yeah. [Liv: So with Bargello, you basically do you make the strips first and then cut them and then do that?] Yes. So with the Bargello, you basically are cutting strips of all these twelve different fabrics. And then you cut and then you sew those strips together. Then you cut you cross cut those strips and stagger them as you put them back together. It's a really neat technique. [Liv: Yeah. You can do a lot with it.]Oh, absolutely. If you just Google Bargello, and of course, there's lots of books on it as well, you'll see some very interesting Bargello pieces. This is simple in that it really is just using one. But there are some Bargellos where they've got them going this way and this way and really creates a lot of motion, depending on how you lay it out. This is simple compared to what possibilities are out there—[Liv: I’m bout to say you say simple. Me as a more beginning artist. I'm like, that don't look you know, that's not] It's really easy to do, and, you know, it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun.

Liv
And I just actually love your story behind all of these pieces. I guess, do you usually have a story in mind? Do you see yourself as a storyteller? Yeah.

Toya
I'd like to see myself more of a storyteller because I want someone to look at my pieces and ponder. I don't want someone to just walk by my piece and say, Oh, that's nice. You know, just like I don't know, a simple landscape. I want I have a story to tell, and I build my story, which is based on my experiences or my research. And, you know, then someone else looking at it. You know, they may see something totally different. And that's what I would hope to to generate when someone walks by and sees one of my pieces, that, you know, they would say, Oh, that looks like, you know, so and so, or You know, when this piece was on Exhibit, and I went to the opening. I wore a dress that had the same colors that was in the water. And people would say, Oh, my goodness. Did you make your dress too? I'm like, Oh, I just got lucky and found a blue green dress. Then as they looked at it, and they were like, Is that you? You know, when they looked at the mermaid and I said, yeah, that is my image. I wanted to use Eartha Kitt, but I just didn't have the permission. So guess what? It's me. You know, I would like to tell stories. I met last month in May. I went to the Genesee Valley Quilt Festival in Rochester, New York, and I met Ellen Blalock. She came to the Afro Futurism Exhibit. She's the one that actually told me about the Genesee Valley Quilt Festival. She is a storyteller, and she is an awesome storyteller. When you look at some of her pieces and you listen to her tell the stories. I mean, her stories are so rich and animated, and her quilts are, you know, she uses vibrant colors to tell her stories. She actually, like you mentioned earlier about creating your own fabric, this woman dies her own fabric. And paint she does a lot of fabric painting. So if, you know, she wants that certain purple, she she can make that purple. You know, she gets her blues and her reds together, and she's like, I need this kind of lavender. So I need a little bit more white and my red and my blue to get that particular color. And and she is just she is an awesome storyteller that, you know, incorporates painting and in her fiber art. And she also does a lot of embellishments, you know, with beating and sequins and things like that. So she's not afraid to do do whatever it takes and put whatever, you know, her piece dictates to her. I often let my pieces dictate to me. What do you want to do? Where do you want to, you know, you want some more of this? I have a T-shirt quilt that let me see, did I put that in here? I did not put that in this presentation. But there is a T-shirt quilt that I did. Dear. I can't quickly I can't quickly put my hands on it. I'm sorry. Okay. But I when I first started doing this one, maybe I'll look for it while I'm talking, when I first started doing that particular quilt. I did not know what I was going to do with it. I did not know what direction I was going to go in in building it. And then as I was preparing the T-shirts to do this T-shirt quilt, the it struck me that I needed to make a character that was actually wearing a T-shirt. And [Liv: Oh, on the quilt. Yeah.] This one here. Let me go back to here and share my screen. This is the one. So this is made from t shirts, and I received all these T-shirts from this young lady who wanted to make this quilt for her aunt. And I looked at all the T- shirts, and I was going to make just a traditional t shirt quilt, you know, which is just block, block, block, block, block, block, block, block, block, block T-shirts, right? And when I saw this T-shirt right here, I was like, I can't just cut that one into a square. It just, you know, as just a plain square just didn't make sense to me that I said, I can do something more creative with it. So then I also had the image of her aunt, because we were talking about whether or not I knew her aunt. So she had texted me a picture of her aunt. And I said, No, doesn't look familiar, but I captured the image, and I used that as her face on the T- shirt. And she was just so surprised when she saw the finished project because she thought it was just going to be block block block, block block block, block, block, block, you know, and I did this with it. And so she was and I like to try and put an element of WOW in my quilt. And so my original design was something that evolved. Yeah, you know. And that was an instance where I let the fabric talk to me and tell me which way it wanted to go.

Liv
It looks incredible. I think that's so unique. Yeah. You turned it into a whole like it looks like a like a portrait of somebody. And she's actually worn these garments, so I really love. Yeah. Yeah. Necklace piece just go so well together in the big skirt. Yeah.

Toya
I mean, and I had no idea that this was the fabric that I would use to to accent and fill in until I had all these T shirts in front of me, and I said, Okay, there's some gold in there. So I need to find some red red, black, and gold fabric that works together. And so that's basically I did. The fabric talks to me. The fabric whisper.

Liv
I love it. And you have a very intuitive sense with it as well. You can tell that the communication goes well and that you listen. It goes into something this incredible. And seeing this one is making me think of the other one that I saw at the share day. You shared it at the Great Lakes Day that I went to. And it was the big heart quilt of two people who were like, one was [Toya: Oh, my niece? Let me see. Can I get to that one?] And that one was just so gorgeous, and I was just like, Oh, my God. And then I saw that you had posted it on Facebook later, and I shared that one with my cousin because she and her husband are both in Black, the divine nine. [Toya: Oh. There it is.]That's the one. There it is. A. Oh, my goodness. When I saw that, I was just like, That's the prettiest quilt I've ever seen.

Toya
Thank you. This is a pattern actually. But I just took the pattern and deviated a little bit in order to create it. But this pattern, there's a story in this one, obviously, it's based on it was a wedding gift for my niece and in the center of it is the picture, the image of her husband proposing to her. And you know, the colors that were chosen were based on her sorority, his fraternity, her college, his college. You know, he went to Eastern. So there's the green and white and the other green and white Michigan school. And she went to UofM, which is the blue and gold, and she's a member of Zeta Pi Beta. Their colors are blue and white. He's a member of Omega Psi Phi, whose colors are purple and gold. And then you know, I also have some other images of them dating and just fun pictures of them. But also the story that goes with this quilt is basically telling them to keep their love and remember what's at the center of it all, and that's their love for one another and who they are. And that's what this heart is all about. But outside of the heart, supporting the heart, are family members. And so interspersed in here are images that represent other family members. Her dad works with Ford. Of course, I got some elephants in here. He likes to play video games, and so does my son. As a family, we played a lot of cards together. So different things like that we played volleyball at all of our family picnic. So different things like that are interspersed in here, bowling, cats, dogs, things that, you know, that our family cherishes. So those are there as well. So supporting them. We're on the outside and, you know, that I think I did one for her, well, not, I think. I did do one for her brother as well. Let me see if I can find. Oh, this was my first quilt. This was the one I did for Jack and Jill. [Liv: Oh, wow. That turned out really good. And for all first quilt.] That was my first quilt. And it was big, too. It was huge. It was like king size. Each each of these blocks were you know, from each of the members in our chapter. Yeah. So that was our Kwanzaa. And in this fabric that was used here, it was the Oakland County chapter, but the fabric was the President's fabric. So there's even a little story with that one as well. Yeah. The officer. The president and the vice president sold the Black strips. So you know, as the story goes, that's the ones that are holding all of us together. The inner ones are other members of the chapter. The outer ones are the committee members pulling us all together. That's that one. I was looking for something else. That's another sweatshirt jacket that I made. [Liv: Cool poppin colors.] What was I forgot what I was looking for Liv. Oh, this is a T- shirt quilt that I did, and I was able to get Nikki Giovanni's autograph on it because it had her poem, ego tripping on it. [Liv: Yeah. I love that so much. This is just like an amazing collection of different books that you've made. Yeah. That panel too. Yeah. Yeah.] That's my Black Pather. That quilt.

Liv
Nice. I love that. Yeah. All of these are just incredible. I guess, do you have any final thoughts for us. Any final reflections that you've thought about either doing this conversation or in general, just tells us about anything you're thinking about?

Toya
I guess going forward, I'm just looking forward to creating more story based quilts, and, you know, just sharing experiences, kind of, You know, I want to do more national type exhibits. I have a couple of pieces that will be the mermaid and that self portrait piece. Those are about to travel to Atlanta. I got to mail those off next week. So they're going to Atlanta to be in the Atlanta Quilt Festival. I probably will be doing more teaching. I really enjoy teaching others about quilting. And you know, learning the craft, passing it on so others can experience it. I think quilting is a very satisfying art for me. It's peaceful, relaxing. Sometimes it can be frustrating, you know, when you, you know, had to pull stitches out because I'm very quality minded. So if it doesn't look right, I will rip out, rip it out. I'll take the seams out, and, you know, I got my seam ripper just as handy as I have, you know, my needle and thread to construct it. It doesn't look right. I'm going to pull it out because it will just continue to bother me. And even though, you know, you might not see it, every time I look at it, it'll wave it. It's like, Oh, So I will rip it out if I'm not satisfied with it. So but for the most part, I just it's something you get in a zone doing, and sometimes I will I may be somewhat deadline driven and trying to finish up a piece to get it into an exhibit. But sometimes, I will work late into the night early into the morning, just because I want to get a step further. It's like one more seem or well, I got all this done, I may as well you know, start attaching my blocks. Once I start attaching a block, it's like, Oh, well, I may as well do this, you know, So next thing you know, it's 4:00 A.M. Like, Oh, God. I got to go to bed the sun time's up because then I want to be able to sleep. So, you know, I'll do this sometimes. And I guess that's one thing that I have in common with some other quilters. Many of us quilt until early in the morning. Veronica and I, we are usually quilting still at midnight. And And we'll be like, you up. Up, you up. You know, it's like, What are you think it is? Nice or, you know, that kind of thing. So we'll be quilting at midnight. We usually, like I said, once or twice a week, we're quilting by Zoom, and we're just, you know, not necessarily talking like you and I are doing right now. We might just be over here at the machine sewing and it's like, you done yet? Are we there yet? Kind of thing. So Yeah, we both bought this pattern. We're going to make some sneakers. That's the next piece of wearable art that we're going to work on, so I'm excited about that.

Liv
That's cool. I can't wait to see how those turn out too. Yeah. It's so accomplished. Well, thank you again for chatting today. I feel like I always learned so much. I have all of these names over here written the chat of folks that I want to have to look up. Okay. All that wisdom. Yeah. I guess any final words before we sign off you?

Toya
No, I I I can't think of. Of course, when get off, I'll have all these ideas come to mind. So. Yeah. Yeah.

Liv
I really love that. Again, I know you said that you want to be more of a storyteller, but I already hear the stories that you're sharing about your quilts, and I just absolutely love them and about your diligent practice of making sure of things turn out how you want them to be and the laying. It's so complex, and I'm very glad that I've been able to see some of your quilts in person and hope to continue seeing some more. So thank you again for this interview conversation. For anybody watching.

Toya
Thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity to share my experience and my passion. I appreciate the opportunity, and thank you for the invitation.

Liv
Of course, of course. And for anybody watching, be sure to check out Toy's page. Do you have a website as well?

Toya
That's underdevelopment. But I do have a Facebook page if they were look up creations with Quiltitude in Facebook, and that has most of my pieces are in there.

Liv
All right. All right. We also have a page, a quilt artist page for Toya on the Black Diaspora Quilt History Project. So if you'd like to see any of that documentation or see any of the other documentation about the other members of the Great Lakes African American quilters Network, all that info can be found under the BDQHP page on the Quilt Index. Thank you all again for listening this far. And we'll go ahead and stop here.