Diana Baird N’Diaye Interview Transcript

APA Citation for this video interview:
Furman, L., & Baird N’Diaye, D. (2023). Black Diaspora Quilt History Project Interview with Diana Baird N’Diaye [Video]. Quilt Index. https://quiltindex.org//view/?type=artists&kid=12-51-81

Relevant Links:
      • Zelda Barbour Wynn Valdes - https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/valdes-zelda-barbour-wynn-1901-2001/
      • Bisa Butler - https://www.bisabutler.com/
      • Carolyn Mazloomi - https://carolynlmazloomi.com/
      • Paula Whaley - https://www.oprahdaily.com/life/a36618482/paula-whaley-sculptor-interview/

Transcription Note:
This interview transcription was created with the assistance of machine-generated transcription tools. Some words, punctuation, and capitalization may be inconsistent.

Interview Transcription

00:00:01,320→00:01:51,820
Liv
All right. All right. Well, hello! Today we are going to do another quilt artist interview with Diana–can you say your last name one more time? [Diana: Baird N’Diaye] Well, thank you. I'm going to say a quick spiel about the Black Diaspora Quilt History Project, and then we're going to hop right on in. The Quilt Index Black Diaspora Quilt History Project is a National Endowment for the Humanities funded initiative. The Black Diaspora Quilt History Project is an intentional effort towards preserving and making accessible in the index primary and secondary sources on African American, African, and African diasporic quilt history drawn from geographically dispersed public and private collections. The BDQHP is a two year project running 2022-2024 and the scope of this project will entail the quilt index staff working with diverse group of stakeholders to create digital humanities resources on African African and African diasporic quilt history resources emerging from this project will make known and honor the cultural legacy of black quilters throughout the Diaspora. A big part of this is actually talking to black quilters, having conversations, so that we can share these recorded conversations with others so that people can actually see you and hear you know about you and what you do. So thank you again, welcome. We have some questions here. I feel like the first one to start with is just like a quick introduction. Could you introduce yourself? Tell us about who you are. Whatever you want you know to be made known about you.

00:01:51,820→00:03:10,240
Diana
So my name is Diana Baird N'Diaye and sometimes Dr. Diana Baird N’Diaye. I'm an artist and a folk artist and a mother and a daughter and an auntie to many. I'm a quilter, a needle worker, especially. I like to think of what I do–I’m an educator, that’s important too. I like to think of my quilts as the way that I express myself visually. And–you know, some people paint, some people sculpt, some people use clay. I use textiles and fabric.

00:03:10,240→00:03:34,740
Liv
All right, thank you. I feel like, yeah, about how we express ourselves often comes up. Can I ask a follow up question about that? How did you get into each of your interests? I know you talk about your work as a folklorist, but also like your expressions of textile work and other arts. How did you get into that?

00:03:34,740→00:07:27,789
Diana
Well, I started doing work with textiles way before I knew that folklore was even a thing. When I was really young, I lived with my elder aunties in Bermuda and they were always sewing, they were always making stuff. Now, they didn't make quilts, they made crochet afghans, they made crochet. But they were always working with their hands and with the needle or crochet hook. And so really early on my memories are of them sitting in the afternoons around the dining table and sewing. My first memory–I always loved to make things. My first memories of them, is really, really asking, “Can I do it? Can I do it?” And so they gave me some fabric and a needle–well, they gave me a pin with a piece of thread wrapped around it. They gave me some fabric scraps and I always remember like trying to pull this needle, you know, the straight pin through the fabric. And of course, it was really frustrating. And it was hard. But instead of giving up, I was, I was still interested and so they ended up sending me to sewing school. And this was a sewing school–you had to get there by ferry. It was run by two sisters called the Francis Sisters. We had to make one outfit and it was with patterns, I remember it was what I ended up making was some shorts and a top. Very simple, and then a little embroidered thing on the pocket. I was so proud. Then I just continued to sew. Was inspired to sew by people I saw making things around me, but it was mostly clothes. It wasn't until much later as an adult that I discovered quilts and I discovered that there was an African American–very old African American tradition of what I guess people have called improvisational quilts. African American aesthetic quilts. That was really exciting to me. My stepmom happened to be a folklorist. She had done a lot of work in the Georgia Sea Island. She actually had quilts. It was just really being inspired first by my family and sewing and then by seeing these quilts from the Sea Island. That was my first inspiration.

00:07:27,789→00:07:36,370
Liv
That's really cool to hear. Seems like you have a lot of elders who helped guide you into it, set examples for a lot of the work.

00:07:36,370→00:10:07,610
Diana
That's very true and actually I loved design, I loved making things because as a girl, the only thing that I knew about was fashion design. And I think it was the only thing that was in the black community. Well, I didn't millinery, yeah, but it was fashion design that people knew. And this is in the early 1970s. I had the good fortune to study as part of a HARYOU-ACT program. HARYOU-ACT arts and culture was an organization set up in Harlem, and it was to give inspiration to give skills and so on to African American young people. I was part of that when I was in high school, but they had amazing people teaching it. And one of the amazing people was Zelda Wynn Valdes, who is now being known as one of the premier African American fashion designers and couturiers. She showed us how to sew, she took us back to the basics. She showed us how to design using draping, using pattern making, how to actually come up with a collection. She had us modeling our own clothes at fashion shows. I mean, it was just amazing. So she was a very early and important mentor and elder and now it's great that her work is in the National Museum of African American History and Culture. There's lots more recognition. Very recently, I met a doll maker, an amazing doll maker, Paula Whaley, who was in that same class and we didn't know each other and I lost contact with everybody. It's been great to see another artist who's come through that.

00:10:07,610→00:10:21,450
Liv
Yeah, I love that. I feel like it also speaks to the ways that the legacies of art makers can live on. You learn these things, learn the skills and tools, but we usually use them in our own unique ways.

00:10:21,450→00:11:21,959
Diana
Yeah, This was astonishing. That was really my introduction. I made my own clothes in high school. My mom had a dry cleaning store and she was an amazing dresser and because I knew how to sew I ended up being the repairs lady. People from the neighborhood, black neighborhood, would come in and either be a torn zipper or something to be hemmed, you know, something torn–my role was to mend it. It's only recently in the past few years that I've remembered that and put it together with the fact that I love the idea of mending and the concept of mending.

00:11:21,959→00:11:30,499
Liv
Yeah, and your mending, was it the mending bind that you just told me about? I feel like that I can make connections as well.

00:11:30,499→00:14:41,550
Diana
Well, I can talk about that a little bit. I think about mending in a lot of ways. I think we're in a period of time where things and people and situations need mending. It's been the society where you buy something to wear and you throw it away and by extension a lot of times even especially black people have been looked at as expendable as well. Use up our spirit, our bodies, and then throw us away basically. The mending bind came about–I went into a store and I saw this really neat little enclosure that popped up. It was a pop up tent, literally. It was in a bag about maybe 36 inches round and you could carry it. But then when it popped up, it was covered in camouflage material to look like the outdoors. It had little windows in the front and in the back and in the sides. And it was for hunters who–who wanted to hide to be able to better reach their prey. Just the idea of that and the concept that we really don't need to hunt especially for sport but that not only do hunters hunt for sport, but also many times they hunt– we've been hunted as black people or subject to that kind of violence. So the mending bind–the idea of a mending bind was to take the same structure and to make it into a place where people could go and heal and mend. They could actually mend stuff like mend clothing, create new things, but they could also mend their souls, mend their relationships with another person. It just fits two people. I made one–I doing residency at a place called Red Dirt, right in my neighborhood here is in Mount Rainier.

00:14:41,550→00:16:45,889
After that, it became, I guess, something that I've always loved and wanting to expand. So a lot of parallels. I come through a Muslim tradition, it’s also a Christian tradition, and a lot of religious traditions–I'm very interested in religion I had heard discussions of the burqa. When women choose to, when women choose to wear it, it becomes a personal architect that you're inside this garment and you can see out, but people can't see in. It becomes a sense of a way to protect your personal space. There's a lot been said about how it restricts women's freedom and so on but a lot of times people don't ask women who choose to wear it. Now if women do not choose to wear it, then it becomes a prison. But it really fascinated me and so the windows of the mender’s bind I covered with lace like you might cover the viewing space of a burqa. So anyways, that’s that. But it's related to quilting in that it's something made of fabric. It's made, un, I’m adding patches to it and thinking of it as a constructed textile.

00:16:45,889→00:17:12,450
Liv
Yeah, I love that. Thank you for that deeper dive into talking about it. I have a follow up question, if you don't mind, about how does I guess this piece fit into or embody your art making aesthetic. Like why you make art, especially quilting, and about the meaning of the art that you make?

00:17:12,450→00:18:00,530
Diana
For me, quilting and art making in general is a way to connect ideas and emotions and express ideas and emotions and also connect to people. I think that the space, the mending bind, as well as the quilts that I do hopefully evoke conversations. I think about the conversations that it becomes a starting point for.

00:18:00,530→00:18:30,490
Liv
I love that. I feel similarly in my own work, I think of most things as like a reflection tool for people to think about their own lives and like how they've experienced similar things. Hearing you talk about it in that way. Okay. Are there any other questions on this list that pique interest or things that you might want to talk through?

00:18:30,490→00:20:56,90
Diana
Okay. Let me see. You talked about history of quilts and quilting. Well, the thing is that African American quilts that I've seen, especially like those of Gee’s Bend, also those that inspired the Gee’s Bend project, Roland Freeman's, Something to Keep you Warm, really make my heart beat faster. I really have a visceral reaction, a ecstatic reaction, to seeing the quilt because they're just amazing. I remember seeing a video when the Bend Quilt Exhibition was up of women talking about the community that was part of the quilt making, the kind of resistance, the issues of quilts, resistance quilt healing, things that you passed down to your children, ways that you passed down your heritage. That's an example. Let me see what is your favorite quilted piece made by you or someone else? I have so many favorite pieces, especially those made by makers like Carolyn Mazloomi. Obviously, Faith Ringgold, who folks know. But also every day meeting I’m new people who’s quilts I love. I'm mentioning the biggies, but Bisa Butler also I think is just amazing, goodness. I can come up with more names, but I love the fact that they are using quilts, not only to make beautiful things, but to tell stories.

00:20:56,900→00:21:06,680
Liv
Yeah, I love that. Do you have a favorite one in your own personal collection?

00:21:06,68080→
Diana
I can show you what I'm working on. It's one of my–that I think is one of my favorites. I don't know if it can–[Liv: I love seeing in process quilts] I have a lot of process in process quilts. Let me see here. Okay, This one I've put a lot of work into. I'll show you the little one first because this is my current favorite.

00:21:43,440→00:21:59,699
Liv
I already see sparkles. I'm like, yeah. Can you describe a little bit about what I'm seeing?

00:21:59,699→00:23:27,759
Diana
Okay, well, it's gone through a lot of iterations, but the name of it is “All the Stars are Closer” after Kendrick Lamar. That was the inspiration for this. I typically use fabric that I scrounge, that I find somewhere. I think this was part of a Nigerian–somebody wore to a wedding and then I got the thunderbolt fabric–. I found this really intriguing fabric that had wonderful copper. Someone gave me the background is indigo from Guinea, traditional tie-dye fabric. I actually printed and embroidered the background here. This was from another piece of ankara fabric, but I love the idea of the universe growing and it's just, yeah, it just makes me feel happy.

00:23:27,759→00:23:54,219
Liv
As soon as I saw it, I lit up because I also like things that have like movement in them. So when I saw–are they sequins? Or like another– [Diana: Yeah.] When I saw that, along with like, you know, the quilted elements, I was like, oh yeah, like, I don't know, it gives it a lot of texture, a lot of movement. My eye catches all the glints. I feel like reflective pieces also let the viewers see themselves in interesting ways.

00:23:54,219→00:24:30,350
Diana
Well, I love the idea of transcendence and transcendence, a lot of times, or a heightened universe is often depicted in iridescence. That's the other thing that I love about it. When people have transcendent experiences like real looks more real and everything looks bright. And sometimes if you're meditating, when you get up from meditation, the world just looks so much brighter. And so, I like that.

00:24:30,350→00:24:43,070
Liv
I love that. I would love to see that in person too. I feel like looking at a screen is different from seeing it through a screen. I really like that.

00:24:43,070→00:25:03,910
Diana
This one, this one I started in Senegal. Let me see if I can, it's magic reality. It's upside down. Upside down. Here you go.

00:25:03,910→00:25:11,030
Liv
Wow, that is a story quilt?

00:25:11,030→00:25:38,489
Diana
Yes it is. It was inspired by a photograph that my son took in Senegal of a boy on the beach with something on his head and, and it's fruit on his head. It became a young girl looking out into the sunset but seeing these magical flying horses.

00:25:38,489→00:25:56,069
Liv
I was like, ‘Are they horses?’ And then I saw the wings and then I thought Pegasus? Could you tell me a little bit more about, you know, the textures how you pick the colors if you have stories of how picked the fabric?

00:25:55,510→00:27:01,189
Diana
Yeah. Well, again, this is mostly scrounged fabrics. And I have a nephew who's a tailor. I beg him all the time. He's in Senegal and I beg him all the time for little scraps when he's not working on–this is something from somebody's fancy dress. Then I found this ankara fabric in a store. The original, it had horses all over it, and I thought, oh my God, I love these horses. I like the idea of her looking out onto something that's not only a sunset, but think magical things are happening. The sunset. It's transcendence too. Because you see the horse here and then you see the horse is no longer, it's going off into the cosmos.

00:27:01,189→00:27:22,209
Liv
I see even the change in the fabric. texture again. I said movement in the last one and now I think of it for this one as well with the background and the waves. It gives it a lot of body.

00:27:22,209→00:29:05,960
Diana
This one is one that I'm doing. It's going to be in a show in October in New York City. It, it's called Blood, Sweat, Tears and Okra. [Liv: Do I see a cityscape?] Well, actually it's a landscape but it's people working in a field–people working in a field. I was looking at, you know, Okra pods and I was looking, you remember the well, everybody's seen the photograph or the drawing, of the people in the slave ship that– so I, I guess it was the same shape as the Okra pod. Then I thought about the thing that people brought seeds in their hair. And the African American ancestors, or African ancestors brought things like Okra to cook from the continent and ended up and worked the fields.[Liv: brought the seeds to sustain themselves] Right, exactly. This is Blood, Sweat, Tears and Okra.

00:29:05,960→00:29:16,140
Liv
Wow. That is amazing. I absolutely, again, I love the story of it, the history of it. Texture, color.

00:29:16,140→00:29:40,339
Diana
I like using unusual textures. Unusual textures and colors. It's not like necessarily a bright you know quilt, obviously. I love using indigo as a backing. Because it's also one of the things we brought.

00:29:40,339→
Liv
And then it's also like grounding your quilt making in textural textile traditions of black folk, of black, black and indigenous communities.